Hernan Lopez started the podcast studio Wondery in 2016 when podcasting was still nascent.
Podcasting has exploded in the decade since, with ad revenue in the US expected to have grown to over $3 billion in 2025, up from just $169 million when Wondery launched. More recently the podcast industry has pivoted toward video shows, so much so that the Golden Globes added a “Best Podcast” category this year.
But that doesn’t mean every podcast needs to be on video, Lopez told us on our most recent episode of Scalable.
“There’s always a trade off between how much video you do and how much editing you can do,” he said, noting it can also be harder to book guests if they need to be camera ready.
But there’s a catch. “What I think is now table stakes is that every podcast needs to have a video strategy,” Lopez said. That means that even if podcasters don’t plan to publish full-length video episodes, they probably still need to record video.
Lopez, who sold Wondery to Amazon in December 2020, pointed to “Acquired” as an example. The popular business podcast publishes hours-long audio-only episodes diving into the histories of companies like Visa and Hermes. “The kind of work that they do will be really difficult to do with video,” Lopez said.
At the same time, even shows like “Acquired” record video interviews so they can publish short clips on social media. Social apps like TikTok and Instagram have become top discovery channels for podcasts as interview clips frequently go viral: 57% of US podcast consumers found new podcasts through social media, ahead of recommendations from friends and family or podcast apps, per Coleman Insights and Amplifi Media.
Lopez, who now runs a boutique media and entertainment consulting firm called Owl & Co., believes that the future of podcasting may lie in those vertical video clips.
“We’re going to see vertical podcasts. Vertical is the default mode on mobile and the apps that are winning in time spent are vertical,” he said, pointing to “Subway Takes” as an example of a “vertical podcast.”
That could blur the lines between podcasts and other content even further. Even so, Lopez isn’t on board with retiring the word podcast in favor of shows.
“I do hope we continue to protect and preserve the name ‘podcast,’” he said.
We also spoke to Lopez about why he decided to sell Wondery to Amazon, what he thought about Amy Poehler winning the first “Best Podcast” Golden Globe, why his latest bet is on microdramas and much more. Watch the full interview below, or tune in on Spotify or anywhere you get your podcasts.
In other news…
Netflix vs. Instagram
Alix Earle is getting a new Netflix reality show. The series will premiere this year and follow the social media “It” girl as she navigates her life and business after college.
News of the show dropped just a day after Netflix’s fourth-quarter earnings report. Revenue rose 17.6% year over year and the company hit a record 325 million subscribers. But Netflix’s stock fell as it issued weaker-than-expected revenue and profit growth for the first quarter.
On a call with analysts, Netflix co-CEO Ted Sarandos again acknowledged the competition it faces from YouTube: “We all compete with them in every dimension — for talent, for ad dollars, for subscription ad dollars and for attention,” he said.
Case in point: Last week, Earle launched a new interview series on YouTube called “Get Real with Me,” that plays off the get-ready-with-me videos that catapulted her to fame on TikTok and Instagram. Her first guest? TikToker Jake Shane, whose Netflix deal for his podcast “Therapuss” was announced on Wednesday.
In its letter to shareholders, Netflix also directly called out Instagram, which recently brought Reels to TVs, as a competitor. While Netflix has long stressed the competition it faces from YouTube and social media, name-dropping Instagram has been relatively rare to hear from the company.
Social media has also come up in conversations with filmmakers, according to actor Matt Damon. “It wouldn’t be terrible if you reiterated the plot three or four times in the dialogue because people are on their phones while they’re watching,” he said during his appearance with Ben Affleck on “The Joe Rogan Show,” referring to what Netflix executives tell filmmakers.
Netflix may be betting that Earle—and a slew of new creator podcast deals—could help change that.
The Round Up
Substack launched a TV app, the company announced Thursday. The app is available on Apple TV and Google TV for Substack subscribers, who can view content they already subscribe to, such as livestreams and video posts. As we wrote in November, newsletters aren’t just newsletters anymore.
Instagram is testing replacing follower counts with “friends,” which refers to users who an account follows that also follow them back, Business Insider reported. Follower counts have been a source of debate lately, as they don’t accurately reflect who sees a creator’s content or how many true fans they have.
YouTube CEO Neal Mohan laid out the key priorities for the company this year in his annual letter, including fighting AI slop, building the “best place” for kids and teens, making YouTube a top shopping destination and expanding brand deals for creators.
The BBC inked a deal with YouTube. The British broadcaster will produce videos tailored for the video-sharing site, including documentaries, children’s content, as well as news and sports, starting with the Winter Olympics in February.
Duetti, a startup that buys the rights to songs from independent artists, announced $200 million in new funding, which includes a Series C investment from Raine Partners and an increase to its existing credit facility.
Artie, a new firm that will connect creators and filmmakers with capital and back-office infrastructure, launched this week. The startup is founded by Matt McDonald, the former global head of connected TV and streaming at Google, and Derek Scobie, a former ads executive at YouTube.
Today in TikTok
TikTok’s latest deadline to sell or be banned in the US is Friday. The deal may actually close this time, according to Semafor.
TikTok announced new ad formats aimed at helping streaming and entertainment companies generate more ticket sales and new subscribers. The news was timed to the Sundance Film Festival in Park City, Utah. The short-form video app is also bringing 10 creators to Sundance and hosting a cocktail party with Charlie xcx.
TikTok Shop is planning a new program in the US to attract more established brands to sell on the ecommerce feature, The Information reported. The program incentivizes 100 ecommerce agencies to each recruit dozens of brands with at least $10 million in annual sales on other platforms like Amazon and Shopify, according to the report.
Big Number: 90 Days
That’s the recommended spend attribution window for brands who run creator integrations on YouTube, according to a report by Agentio. The creator advertising startup analyzed data from more than 10,000 YouTube creator integrations from brands including Uber, Skims and Olipop.
The company found that about 40% of views and 30% of clicks happen after a YouTube video has been live for at least 30 days, meaning that brands that evaluate performance before that time may not be capturing the full return on investment.
That also means that for brands, YouTube is less like TV and more like a search engine. Brand integrations can be rediscovered weeks or months after publication “unlike a TV spot that disappears after it airs,” Arthur Leopold, co-founder and CEO of Agentio, told us.
Talent Tracker
Lee Brown is the first chief business officer of Pinterest and Claudine Cheever was named chief marketing officer. Previously, Brown was chief revenue officer of DoorDash and Cheever led marketing at Amazon. Andréa Mallard, Pinterest’s former CMO, announced she’s now the CMO of Microsoft AI.
Pam Kaufman will start as the first chief entertainment officer at Gap on February 2. In this role, she will build the retailer’s entertainment, content and licensing platform. Gap will also open an office in Los Angeles in the spring to “embed” the company in the entertainment industry. Most recently Kaufman was Paramount’s president and CEO of international markets and global consumer products and experiences.
Jenn Cron joined the content acquisition team at Netflix. Previously, she spent about five years at Amazon-owned podcasting firm Wondery, where she most recently led content acquisitions and licensing. Her hiring comes as Netflix pushes aggressively into podcasting.
Taz Patel is now vice president of platform partnerships at Higgsfield AI. The AI video startup recently announced $80 million in Series A extension funding at a $1.3 billion valuation. Previously, Patel was head of advertising and shopping at AI search engine Perplexity. Before that, he co-founded influencer marketing firm Captiv8.
Gwen Miller joined Theorist Media as senior director of digital strategy. Most recently, she was senior director of creator growth at Mythical Entertainment, a company founded by YouTube duo Rhett & Link. Lunar X’s Theorist Media is a production studio that operates large YouTube shows.
Regulatory Woes
The Federal Trade Commission is appealing the case it lost that accused Meta Platforms of being an illegal social media monopoly.
Snap agreed to settle a tech addiction lawsuit before it was set to go to trial. The lawsuit also includes Meta, TikTok and YouTube.
